The enforcement moratorium expired as of Jan. 1, 2025, but there is still a lot of work to be done to move the (flexible) labor market forward. So says Joost van Ladesteijn, employment law attorney and partner at Vertex Legal. In conversation with Sem Overduin of HeadFirst Group, Joost discusses the importance of facts in a regularly sentiment-driven discussion about self-employed workers. Furthermore, Joost is critical of the role of the polder and has a clear vision of the position of the government in this dossier.

You are Top Voice on LinkedIn, active through various media and you are regularly on stage. Today is also not your first time here in Nieuwspoort. What are your motivations and motives for speaking out publicly about various political-social developments on the labor market and the self-employed?

First and foremost, I hope to contribute to the best possible debate for high-quality decision-making in the public interest. Form and content go hand in hand. The quality of the process determines the quality of the outcome. Take assessing a contract as a comparison: the manner in which the explanation phase, the data collection and the determination phase are carried out is essential to the qualification of the employment relationship. So to speak, a more careful explanation phase is essential to move the Netherlands forward sustainably and effectively. That means having a better discussion with each other and, above all, listening more and more broadly. With relaxation and with agility of mind. More objectivity will result in more balanced discussions around the zzp-dossier and the (flexible) labor market with as a consequence also things like more support.

The labor market faces major challenges. We are facing a tight labor market, there is an uneven playing field between different forms of contracts, and we also need to future-proof the social security system. You are critical of the government's role in the labor market file. Can you elaborate on this? 

My concern is not specifically with the government, but with the role and place of all players on the playing field. We seem to be increasingly concerned with the hooligans rather than the supporters. In this regard, enforcement and oversight is essential for any system. I am in favor of an evaluation of all these different actors in the labor market. So that also means an evaluation of the role of the government, just when it is important. Each party now mainly sees itself as the way to solutions: the government, the EU, the SER, the market, regulators, industry associations, and so on. The government is increasingly claiming a prominent role. For example, several bills from the Ministry of Social Affairs and Employment have seen the light of day. This should be done with proper historical awareness. A conclusion from the past thirty years may be that legislation as a labor market instrument has been little successful and even counterproductive. The current operating model does not seem to learn sufficiently from the past and has difficulty in abandoning a path it has taken. Déjà vu's are inevitable.

What solution do you see for the labor market? 

I see the solution in a recalibration of the Trias Politica, the doctrine of a balance of powers. New powers have been added, such as supranational organizations. The distinction between legislative, executive and judicial powers no longer suffices. More tension between the various (shadow) powers is required. Here "without friction no shine" applies.

Adequate "checks and balances" must therefore exist in this playing field, for example to prevent excessive entanglement between powers, already for the quality of decision-making. The human dimension should always be central to pluralism. Policy objectives can now too quickly take shape as a kind of 'hunt', where the end justifies the means.

You write that employment contracts are increasingly becoming a vehicle for government action. What exactly do you mean by that? 

The labor contract has become over-regulated and therefore unattractive. It has become a vehicle to achieve all sorts of government objectives. There is, to quote Verburg, not only 'terrible flex', but also 'terrible fixed'. Barentsen and Sagel put it evocatively in the Chronicle of Social Law: 'How full can the Christmas tree of the labor contract be hung with protective balls before its branches start to creak?' 'Fixed less fixed' therefore deserves as much attention as 'flex less flex,' otherwise any proposed solution will remain symptomatic.

There has been much discussion about the VBAR bill, especially making the criterion of external entrepreneurship "subsidiary. Earlier, there has been political talk about cutting the bill into two separate parts, so that the legal presumption is separated from the clarification part. What is your opinion?  

Like the Advisory Committee on Regulatory Burden (ATR), the Council for the Judiciary and the Advisory Division of the Council of State, I am critical of the VBAR bill. When in 95% of cases it would now be clear what the outcome of an assessment of whether an agreement should be considered an employment contract is, the best-case effect of the VBAR is non-significant. Better than splitting the VBAR is splitting civil and tax employment contracts. Inspectors can then work with laws and regulations in which they are pre-eminent long-time experts. You now notice discomfort among inspectors with an employment law test. Article 7:610 paragraph 1 of the Civil Code, which contains the definition of the employment contract, can then remain unchanged. Legal practice can handle this just fine. That may by now be obvious from case law.

Back to your area of law, employment law. What do you propose to improve it?  

Labor law may be simpler, more effective and balanced for also more agility, innovation and customization, and thus addressing labor market tightness, labor productivity and business climate. This can be done by not setting government and collectivism on the one hand against the market and individualism on the other, but in a new balance with counterpowers with an independent position for labor law, detached from taxation and social security. Government activism starts where market activism stops and vice versa. The risk-rule reflex must be suppressed. In other words: through jurisdiction if possible, through legislation if necessary. Competition should be encouraged. So my additional advice would be to disentangle the privatized social security law from the labor contract. In addition, the 1945 preventive dismissal test should finally be abolished. Article 7:611 of the Civil Code, which regulates good employer and good employee relations, should be given a more emphatic key position. Bills such as Work Where You Want and Right to Inaccessibility then need not be tabled.

What is the role of the polder here? 

here is also a role for the polder, but certainly not an exclusive one. Precisely broader listening than at present is essential. Large groups seem to be systematically missed. For example, the government always assumes broad support for proposed measures because plans are made in consultation with social partners. But structurally it appears that this broad support is precisely not there. Proposals fail in the House of Representatives or meet with resistance from all sections of society. This raises questions about the quality of decision-making, including its diversity and inclusiveness. It is striking that these are precisely the themes that the SER likes to discuss.

The polder is now not the ears of the labor market and does not sufficiently represent all social actors. There seems to be a need for an independent body alongside the SER, with people from commercial practice, which uses technology for direct forms of decision-making, not tied to political parties or particular organizations. This to ensure attention to freedoms, individual responsibilities, conflicting interests and flexibility. In the process, collective bargaining agreements have really fallen through. The material scope of collective bargaining agreements should be drastically reduced to the so-called hard core of working conditions, i.e. wages, working and rest times, occupational health and safety, vacations and equal treatment. The AVV review framework requires modernization. Respresentativeness requirements should be increased and unambiguous. All employees should vote on CLAs instead of a constituency. A maxim could be that more than 25% in employer contributions and/or subsidies affects a union's independence. Again, systemic reform should be put on the agenda.

Answers to preliminary questions by the Supreme Court in the case between Uber and FNV will soon follow. Exciting or not?

Indeed, the ruling is expected soon. If the Supreme Court goes along with the opinion of the Advocate General, then a kind of VBAR law situation may already arise: circumstances relating to the person of the worker himself will then be less important as a starting point than other factors in assessing whether a contract should be considered an employment contract.

However, I expect the Supreme Court to stick to the line it itself has set for the last few decades. The Deliveroo ruling highlights the Groen/Schoevers ruling from 1997 and the Participation Place ruling from 2020. This means: the sequentiality of the two-phase system, the Haviltex measure in the interpretation phase, which includes the social position as a party-specific circumstance, and the holistic test with as part of it that points of view should also be considered in mutual connection. The Supreme Court then does not go along with the Advocate General and external entrepreneurship is not accorded a "subsidiary", subordinate significance.

In the first quarter of 2025, the House of Representatives will again debate labor market policy and the zzp dossier. What do you want to give politicians?

The art of the manufacturable must be exchanged for an awareness of inherent limits. Less is now more. Start with the 5 km first, achieve initial success, and only then embark on a marathon of which even start and finish are now unclear.

The government must argue concretely, unambiguously and objectively, with quantifications, what trade-offs it is making, recognizably reflecting on all the facts and circumstances, recognizing that 100% compliance is unachievable and policy (to the extent required at all) thus amounts to risk management. Government should be above the parties and know the necessity of its own limitations, including that legislation is not a "multi-cloth." Agile in spirit, government should seek connection by engaging in conversation and listening for balances based on commonalities. Thus, man, which constitutes society, can also be measure of things, as painter and canvas.

It is now more than five years since the Borstlap Commission issued a robust report on labor market reforms. Is it now time for a revised version? A Borstlap 2.0?  

The Borstlap Commission report is strongly ideological and can be interpreted as yet another typical product of the public sector. One can also take a completely different view of the content and necessary measures, but the report contains that different view to a limited extent. With also all the reports of all the members of the Borstlap Commission in the news on an almost daily basis, the views of the Borstlap Commission should really be known enough by now. It would be good if precisely others than members of the Boot Commission, the Borstlap Commission and the SER (MLT) were allowed to tell their stories, perhaps by a group from the commercial sector, all the more so given the limited successes in the labor market over the past few decades and we now really want to move forward. Remember also that the Borstlap Commission was mostly not followed by the previous minister. As mentioned, for me, labor law in particular can be more balanced, effective and simple. In my opinion, this cannot be achieved by setting government and collectivism on the one hand against the market and individualism on the other, as has been the case in recent decades, but in a new balance with an independent position for labor law. In this, freedom, and its protection, is essential. The guarantee of fundamental freedoms creates the possibility of self-development and self-actualization for everyone. This includes a Red Tape Committee, which removes all duplicate and unreadable rules (also for dealing with labor shortages and the issue of labor productivity). A 30% 'admin burden' starts to become normal. This has really gotten terribly out of hand in recent years. This should be more of a priority than a multi-hour bonus.

What do you hope for in 2025?

I hope for less ideology and more substantive debate. Numerous issues are currently not easily measurable and should have been eminently so as the basis of the foundation of any analysis. Put objectivity and facts at the center. This will improve the quality of the debate and will have a positive effect on the quality and implementation of decisions.

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Sem Overduin
Public Policy & Affairs Manager
Sem.Overduin@headfirst.nl

Oifik Youssefi
Public Affairs Officer

Oifik.Youssefi@headfirst.nl

Maaike van Driel
Head of Legal

Maaike.vanDriel@headfirst.group

Thomas ten Veldhuijs
Senior Legal Counsel

Thomas.tenVeldhuijs@headfirst.nl